Teach Soap

OK, finally got through doing this honey soap.
Was quite suprising watching it go through the color changes.
All info is in the spec sheet. Sure hope it gets harder with time.
Critiques welcomed (I believe I used a tad too much honey)......

That's a LOT of honey!!!! It may take a long time for the soap to harden, if at all. Honey is generally used at 1 tablespoon per pound of oils and isn't figured into the oils or superfat amounts. Please let us know how it does!

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Linda
I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

That's a LOT of honey. How firm is the soap now?

You can't use honey as a superfat. It's an add on ingredient. You need either an oil or a butter for a superfat.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Ran the recipe through a lye calc, and it looks like the OP used a 0% superfat. OP, did you intend for the honey to be your superfat, or did you just put it in there to have a place to put it?

0% superfat will only be good for laundry. It's too harsh and drying to use on the skin.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

As per my question pertaining to SAP value of honey.....
I figured, if the honey isn't going to react with the lye, then "it" will be the superfat substance.
I think my mistake was going with 5 oz of honey, had it in my mind that 1 tspn pr lb, then read
about it being 1 tbsp, somehow I arrived at 5 oz, figuring off the top of my head that 1 tsp
probably weighs approx 1 oz ....... Somthing like that ......

Anyway, this stuff looks just like peanut-butter fudge and about the consistancy, almost
wanting to take a bite of it .....
A few little pieces fell off during cutting and I can smear them between my fingers and
it's just like the creamy face cream you ladies use (I, I, I don't use that stuff myself) .........
I'm figuring that it will probably take quite awhile for it to dry out (if at all) however,
it is holding together, that's a good sign ........
The amazing part was, I was shooting for "White" bars, when I blended, it turned to the most perfect
color of "Pink", and then, it went on to turn to a pumpkin "orange" color, and was at that color
when I poured it. Only later did it start turning beige. The crust was just as soft as the rest of it.
Tx's for your comments ......

Honey cannot be the superfat as it doesn't saponify. It doesn't react with lye, except the lye can caramelize it. It's mostly natural sugar. It will not be the superfat substance. No sugar will ever be your superfat. Read this blog. Maybe this blog will clear up some things for you. http://bambuearth.com/blogs/news/670894 ... ap-is-made

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

[quote="soapbuddy"]Honey cannot be the superfat as it doesn't saponify. It doesn't react with lye, except the lye can caramelize it. It's mostly natural sugar. It will not be the superfat substance. No sugar will ever be your superfat.

Well, from what I understand, the lye and oils saponify until all the lye is used up, ergo, you have extra oil/butter (substance) (if you have superfated) that remains in it's normal state.
You state --> "Honey cannot be the superfat as it doesn't saponify".= lost me right there ....... Superfat is the substance in excess of the saponification process ...
I understand the superfating theory = more oil/butters than necessary lye = left over oil/butter for the skin etc ....

So, if one were superfatting in order to have remaining oil/butter in it's normal state, why wouldn't honey be just another substance left over, in excess, after saponification ?
That's why I went for 0% superfat in the calculator, and just added the honey as the "extra" (superfat) substance for the skin.

However, I can see reasonable logic as to your statement about "carmelization", and I'll take your word as to sugar not being a superfat (I think) .........

You need excess oils or butters, so the soap is not lye heavy or harsh. Superfat is only an oil or a butter. You will never see honey on a lye calculator as it doesn't react with lye like oils or butters. I realize that it doesn't saponify, but honey will not end up as your superfat, as it's not calculated that way. Honey is an extra ingredient like clay or oatmeal. You have to have a superfat of either an oil or butter, as this is what makes the soap milder on your skin. Making a soap with 0% superfat and adding honey will still be at 0% superfat and very harsh.

Honey does not have a SAP value. Only oils and butters do. I think someone confused you along the way and I can't think of a better way to explain it.

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Irena has it right..only oils and butters {which are actually hard oils}can be a 'superfat'..everything else that you add is just an 'additive' and needs to be in small amounts. {eg; 1oz PPO, 1 Tsp PPO, 1 TBSP PPO etc}

Such as why you will never see a 90-100% oatmeal bar, or a 90-100% clay bar etc...but you 'can' have a 90-100% oil based bar.

Only oils react to lye {chemical reaction} to turn them into soap...the effect that lye has on sugars is a different kind of reaction...a 'heat' reaction..which is why the mixture turned dark on you..the lye heated up and 'cooked' {caramelized} the honey. {you will get the same reaction if you cook sugar, water and a bit of vanilla extract over a period of time}

If this ever hardens up, I'd be afraid to use it on skin..just be careful

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~Jani

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Irena
Closed minds are like faulty parachutes; they refuse to open.

Oxbo: "So, if one were superfatting in order to have remaining oil/butter in it's normal state, why wouldn't honey be just another substance left over, in excess, after saponification ?
That's why I went for 0% superfat in the calculator, and just added the honey as the "extra" (superfat) substance for the skin."

In simple terms:
Oil + lye = soap
Butters + lye = soap
Fat, such as lard or tallow + lye = soap
Honey, sugar, salt, oatmeal, flowers, etc + lye = NOT soap

You can't take just any substance and mix with lye hoping to form soap. You need enough oils/butters/fats for the lye to saponify with so you don't have left over lye. Think of superfatting as an insurance policy against having a lye heavy soap, you are making sure there are more oils or butters left over after saponification than lye so you will get a milder skin safe soap. Honey/sugar is not a fat, it does not saponify, it can't help the lye become soap. It can be a great addition to a properly superfatted soap, but it can not take away lye to make soap milder.

Hope that helps

OK, I think I get the gist of it ....
Tx's guys .....

You are missing a key word - FAT. It's superFAT, not super-whatever. All of your oils - lard, palm, coconut, olive, tallow, etc - are FATS. The unsaponified FAT is what moisturizes your skin. It's also good to have a superfat to give you a margin of error.