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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm
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Location: Lakewood, WA
So I've been using Nature's Garden FOs exclusively thus far; for each batch, I always check the IFRA certification for the maximum amount that can be used.

Now I've got a couple of EO's and and FO from another vendor (Glory Bee) and I'm just not comfortable with general guidlines like ".7 oz ppo"* - that simply can't apply to all EO's and FOs, can it? I have used NG FOs with max amount from 3%, 5%, 25% all the way up to "no limit" - that's a considerable range.

Further, I wonder how vendors get away with not providing this info. Kicking myself for not asking when I bought them!!!!

* which is 4.3%, roughly...what if it should be more like 3%?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:03 pm
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Location: Sum beach, somewhere
All but the strong Eo's are usable at .7 oz ppo. But those are really a different category than FO's and should be well studied before using, imho.
Yes, you should always ask the vendor if you don't see the max usage rates, as not every vendor carries the same formulation of FO's. However, generally speaking, .7 oz ppo is fine. Look at the calculations and you will see that at .7 oz ppo you will be under a 5% usage rate. I have been told by industry reps that the majority of fo's are safe at 5-6%. Of course there are ones lower and higher, which is why you need to check, but most will be in that range, which is why the .7 oz ppo is the "general" usage rate.

ETA: the site may have a general rule of "assume that all fo's are 5% unless otherwise noted". Just call or email them and ask what the deal is.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm
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Location: Lakewood, WA
Thanks LL - the fact that the .7 ppo come from those in the industry does help; absent that info, it seem arbitrary.

With regards to "strong" EOs - are you referring to cinnamon, clove, etc...the "spicy" EOs?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:03 pm
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yes April, the cinnamon/cassia, clove etc. are the strong EO's I was speaking of. However, each one needs checked before using. Still, those are generally used at .4 oz ppo and citrus at .9 oz ppo., while the regular EO's are mostly .7 oz ppo I am most familiar with EO's, having worked with them for a good number of years.
But, just to be clear, I did not say that the industry leaders said to use .7 oz ppo for FO's (many people use more, I usually use .8 to begin with, 1 oz ppo if I heard it was a bad sticker) I said, that if you look at the calculations, that amount fits under what they say the average safe usage amount is, the 5-6%. So "generally" speaking you will be safe using that amount. It is still important to check with the vendor for the information.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:14 pm
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Location: Mistress Of Lather
With fragrance oils, since we don't know what the ingredients are, most of us go by the 0.7 oz. per lb. of soap. With experimentation, some can be used at a lower amount.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:42 am
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Location: Western WI
soapbuddy wrote:
With fragrance oils, since we don't know what the ingredients are


This is the exact reason that I don't buy fo's from suppliers that don't offer an IFRA for each fo or that have actual usage rates for each individual fo.

I really hate when suppliers have a fixed usage recommendation of 1 oz of any of their fo's per pound of all products. Ridiculous!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Location: Mistress Of Lather
If I would have to use 1 oz. of an FO, I would look for another supplier. You should not have to use one full once per lb. of soap. That FO is weak then and should not be used in soap. It is a plus if the vendor has an IFRA.

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