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 Post subject: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I've been doing a lot of reading lately about what's needed in order to sell CP soap. All I can say is... urg! :|

In Australia, we need to register with 'NICNAS' which is just under $400 a year.

On top of that, it's recommended to get liability insurance in case someone tries to sue (they get a rash, they eat the soap and get sick, etc) and from my looking, there's only ONE company that provides the type of insurance we need, and it's around $70 - $100 a month AND they only insure 100% natural products. So no micas, oxides, fragrance oils, etc.

I'm feeling very, very deflated this morning. Apart from the cost (I'm not sure I would sell over $100 a month worth of soap), not being able to use fragrance oils and such makes it very limiting.

Any advice? I realise it's hard being that different countries have different rules and options. But what do I do? I would really like to be able to use my addiction to create a little extra cash on the side. Or at least pay for what it costs me so I can keep making. :cry:

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Coolah Creations Blog - Posting the trials and tribulations of my Soaping Journey!


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 5735
Location: Jefferson City, TN
WOW! that's a lot of money for insurance and then to not be able to make the type of CP soap you want... :x
Do the same rules apply to MP soap? I think you mentioned somewhere that you were already selling MP.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
The NICNAS registration only applies to CP soap thank goodness. But insurance applies to everything I guess. I've just been hoping and praying because the MP base is a lot 'safer'. But from chatting to the insurance people, you need it for pretty much everything. Even if someone used a bath bomb and had a reaction to the fragrance, they could try and sue. From what I was advised however, is it's the CP soap that you pretty much HAVE to insure yourself against because you're creating the product from raw materials, so there's a higher risk of possible reactions.

Even the place I buy my MP base from has a disclaimer that they can not be held legally responsible for anything we create with their products. So there's always a risk, it's just more likely with CP. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
im in the process of setting up my soap business (but i work at a snails pace - my husband says i have no sense of urgency) and i need to start looking at insurance, i think (from memory) its best to try a small business broker, i think i read that on the aussie M&P facebook page. im going to go see an accountant first too.

Im not going to be selling CP so i dont have to worry about nicnas for now, but i hopefully plan too down the track.

Have you had any luck with finding insurance?

I also know that AAMI do market stall public liability and you can add product liability to that but i have yet to contact them about it. Its on my to do list 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I went through a local broker to get my insurance. While the bigger names (AAMI, etc) offer Market Stall insurance, they don't offer product liability insurance directly. By broker got me the base level of product liability for just under $900 a year.

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
hmmmmm more than i was wanting to pay on a 'hobby' hehe but its necisary these days. gonna have to really promote my butt off to sell the soap to cover the insurance and nicnas and everything else! oh well, guess i wont be quitting my day job anytime soon :)

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yeah that's my problem, I have to sell a minimum of $100 a month just to cover insurance costs and NICNAS fees ... and that doesn't even cover cost of goods and everything else. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 5735
Location: Jefferson City, TN
Coolah wrote:
I went through a local broker to get my insurance. While the bigger names (AAMI, etc) offer Market Stall insurance, they don't offer product liability insurance directly. By broker got me the base level of product liability for just under $900 a year.

Once again, I realize how blessed I am to live in the USA! I don't know you you all can afford to make soap! :shock:

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I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia
as a hobby its fine, its just selling it thats going to be costly! Thats why I am just starting with my M&P, (ive only been making CP for 2 weeks anyway so maybe next year i'll look at that)

Especially when you request insurance quotes and no one gets back to you!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:13 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Depending on how finacky people can be - even MP and can be a risk if you're not 100% on with your essential or fragrance oils. Or even colours. I was speaking to a fellow soaper who had a customer threatening to sue because too much colour was used and it stained her perfectly white face washers.

I've read other stories of difficult customers and bath bombs / soap colours leaving a very hard to remove colour film on the bath. It's not just CP soap that can be the problem.

Then again, I've also read a soapers blog who fragranced purely based on smell. ie no measuring, no weighing... just going by her nose. That's just asking for trouble. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:40 am
Posts: 397
Location: Washougal, WA
Yesterday I called around getting insurance quotes, it was super fun! NOT! lol

What I discovered in several interesting things:

1. There are some places that charge as much as $850 per year. When I told my mom this, she gasped and said, "Wow... that's over 3 times as much as what I pay for malpractice insurance." She's a therapist.

2. If you join the Soap Maker's Guild they include insurance as part of their membership. To join is $500, and their policy (according to an insurance broker that I spoke with) is a very good one. You do have to pay the amount in full up front when you join.

3. State Farm sells product liability insurance for $285 per year. AND, you can make monthly payments! AND, if you have State Farm for other purposes (home owners ins, car ins, etc) you can have the amount tagged onto your other bill so you can pay it all at once. The only stipulation is that they request that you assign numbers to each batch and mark your product accordingly so that if there is a problem they can trace it back to a particular batch. They also ask for you to keep records of your customer's contact info (if they give it to you) so that you can recall product if needed.

And that's all I know! If anyone else has found a better deal I'd LOVE to hear about it!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 5735
Location: Jefferson City, TN
AriaGirl77 wrote:
Yesterday I called around getting insurance quotes, it was super fun! NOT! lol

What I discovered in several interesting things:

1. There are some places that charge as much as $850 per year. When I told my mom this, she gasped and said, "Wow... that's over 3 times as much as what I pay for malpractice insurance." She's a therapist.

2. If you join the Soap Maker's Guild they include insurance as part of their membership. To join is $500, and their policy (according to an insurance broker that I spoke with) is a very good one. You do have to pay the amount in full up front when you join.

3. State Farm sells product liability insurance for $285 per year. AND, you can make monthly payments! AND, if you have State Farm for other purposes (home owners ins, car ins, etc) you can have the amount tagged onto your other bill so you can pay it all at once. The only stipulation is that they request that you assign numbers to each batch and mark your product accordingly so that if there is a problem they can trace it back to a particular batch. They also ask for you to keep records of your customer's contact info (if they give it to you) so that you can recall product if needed.

And that's all I know! If anyone else has found a better deal I'd LOVE to hear about it!

RLI is very reasonable but you have to make under $5000/year or they won't insure you. https://www.insuremyhomebiz.com/index.asp

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Linda
I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

LJHandcraftedSoap


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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:14 pm
Posts: 22203
Location: Mistress Of Lather
If you are not in the US, this will not apply. Here is a couple of other places for US based sellers.
http://www.rlicorp.com/Products/IBP/buy.asp

http://www.indiebeautynetwork.com/chann ... u/join.asp

If you're in PA, OH, IN or MI you can get insurance for soap and/or candles through Ohio Arts and Crafts Guild http://oacg.org/member_benefits.html with Broward Insurance

Here's another brokerage that writes coverage for candle/soap makers. It's with Lloyd's of London and includes products & completed operations. The premium ranges from $200 - $300 annually.... the maximum sales limit is $100,000. They can write in all states but KY, IL & the US Virgin Islands.
email TeriM@Ridgwayins.com

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:40 am
Posts: 397
Location: Washougal, WA
Wow! You guys are amazing!

I just got a quote from RLI for $202 per year!

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 Post subject: Re: Insurance ...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:14 am
Posts: 5735
Location: Jefferson City, TN
AriaGirl77 wrote:
Wow! You guys are amazing!

I just got a quote from RLI for $202 per year!

:D

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Linda
I know the voices in my head aren't real, but they sure have some great ideas!

LJHandcraftedSoap


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